November 07, 2009
From an online interview with a former JAG officer:
[Question from] Rockville, Md.: Dear Mr. Kenniff, As the wife of a former military officer, it strikes me as odd that the shooter, who was a major in the Army, claimed that he was being harassed for his religious beliefs. While some types of harassment and teasing (which could be serious or not) are surely not uncommon among enlisted men and women, it is harder to envision it happening in the officer ranks. Enlisted soldiers would know not to harass an officer and it is difficult to envision this individual being "made fun of" (the term I saw in the newspaper) by other officers. This seems inconsistent with the norms in that professional context. What is your sense of this claim? Thanks.
My experience with this is limited, but it runs counter to these two people's experiences. I think perhaps it might have to do with the fact that JAG and the medical corps are a little different from, say, combat arms. I imagine there's less foul-mouthed insults being hurled in the hospital than there are in my husband's corridor.
Yes, I very seriously doubt that some PFC walked up to MAJ Hasan in the hospital and started ragging on him for being a Muslim. Not likely. But to say that officers are above teasing and making fun of folks? My husband apparently doesn't live on the same planet as this lady's husband did.
Officers are human beings. Human beings, in an in-group setting, tease each other. Especially males. About anything and everything that can be used for fodder. Off the top of my head, I know my husband has been made fun of for a variety of things: his beard, his car, his larger-than-average head, his use of big vocabulary words, his lack of tattoos, his never-heard-of-it alma mater, and yes, even just the mere fact of being an officer is grounds for teasing at times (because officers go home and roll around in their big money piles like Scrooge McDuck, you know). And in his current career field, where no one uses rank and everyone gets called by first names, the enlisted soldiers get plenty of cracks in at him. No one is exempt, not the First Sergeant, not the commander, no one. (And Lord help you if you are a female in this career field. You have to have very thick skin.)
I've seen officers tease on ethnicity. A few years ago, my husband invited some other lieutenants over to the house and then told a Chinese-American lieutenant, "But you can't come, you'll oppress my Tibetan dog." The guy laughed and thought that was pretty clever, saying that he usually just gets accused of wanting to eat people's dogs.
I really doubt that Hasan was directly teased about being a Muslim. He might've been if he had gotten close enough to other guys in his unit where they felt comfortable ribbing him, but my guess is that enough people felt Hasan was a bit off and didn't think it'd be wise to poke fun at him. My husband served with one such Muslim before, and everyone was careful to give this guy some space.
I think what's more likely is that Hasan heard indirect comments against Muslims in general and took it personally. In treating soldiers' mental states, he might've heard them say generic things about how they don't get Islam, or they don't like haji, or whatever. And Hasan took it personally. I would bet that a closeted homosexual deals with the same thing in the military. Same as a non-vocal atheist. They would be surrounded by casual conversation against their lifestyle, and I'm sure that's not easy to swallow over and over. I am guessing that's what Hasan meant by saying he felt harassed or made fun of. He heard anti-Muslim comments just by being in the military and took them to heart. Understandable, but quite different from being openly mocked for being a Muslim himself.
I think all this shock that an officer killed these people is a bit ridiculous. Officers are people too. Some of them are jerks. Some of them are ignorant or immature. Some of them are malicious and messed up in the head. They're not somehow above murder just because of their rank.
And they're not above joking and teasing either.
Come on, you really think Chuck Z conducts himself at all times like a complete gentleman? I bet he can let an off-color insult rip like no one's business...
Posted by: Sarah at
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Human beings, in an in-group setting, tease each other. Especially males.
is too broad a generalization, though I believe you are accurately describing your husband's situation. Was it Hasan's situation? Is Kenniff just covering up the truth to preserve the military's image for a civilian audience?
Let's suppose the scenario you described is correct:
I think what's more likely is that Hasan heard indirect comments against Muslims in general and took it personally.
That does sound likely to me. My question is: How many nonwhites, women, homosexuals, et al. in the military hear such comments and react the way Hasan did? My guess is zero. If such people had gone berserk, the media would have lectured us about it. If the military is full of "teasing," how can it promote those who can't take it? Such sensitivity is anything but "Army Strong."
Posted by: Amritas at November 07, 2009 02:45 PM (G4Rx6)
I told her I didn't care if he was the freakin' Pope – he targeted innocent people and killed them in rage. In addition to that, he has a body of evidence pointing to the fact that he is, in fact, a radical Muslim who took very seriously the parts of the Koran that encourage jihad. It doesn't matter if other Muslims are denying having anything to do with him – he doesn't have to be part of a sleeper cell to commit jihad. Neither does "harassment" make a good excuse for mowing down forty people (whose lives he had supposedly sworn to protect, in more ways than one) – it doesn't make him a victim, it makes him a heinous murderer, and we shouldn't ignore that just because he had his feelings hurt.
I haven't gotten a reply yet.
It's really REALLY bugging the heck out of me that people are totally willing to forgive him, because "he's a VIIIIICTIM!"
Poor, poor terrorist. The evil Americans are SOOO mean to you. It doesn't matter that you're an adult with the choice to suck it up/grow a pair/turn the other cheek – OBVIOUSLY killing is the only solution, and we should feel sorry for you.
GRRR. >
Posted by: Deltasierra at November 07, 2009 02:57 PM (/Mv9b)
Very astute observation towards the end. Perhaps in other occupations the teasing isn't so intense. My personal experience being the only female in an entirely male, oil and gas company was that they interacted entirely on the basis of giving each other a hard time. Always.
Mark being infantry is always being teased. I don't need to go into details but it's over everything. And they like it. It's how they bond, I guess. And more so, the teasing gets bad if they don't respect or truely hate a fellow officer. If they outrank him, it happens behind the guy's back but it probably circles back to him anyhow.
What's astute is that as the listener, he probably heard the honest opinion of many soldiers regarding the muslim religion. And your comparisons are right on. I'm on your side with this.
Posted by: Sara at November 07, 2009 10:02 PM (MYUXb)
Posted by: Tara at November 07, 2009 10:07 PM (BuzKj)
I always conduct myself as a complete gentleman.
I have never, ever, conducted myself otherwise, despite rumors of my wearing a banana hammock around the pool at the vegas hilton, or shouting "hooker" in a vegas bar until an "independent contractor" appeared, or calling her later with a group of other nefarious types and asking if she had a clown suit, or putting fly bait in my 1SGs HMMWV, or telling a buddy that the rattling sound his new mini van made was the sound of his nuts rolling around in the ash tray.
For that matter, I'd never sell a t-shirt that says "my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend." I'd never tell the lab tech who commented on the color of my pee that "It tasted fine to me" or ask for a magazine when given a (urine) specimen cup, and mention it may take a while if they want it filled. I'd never say "the jews" every time someone asks who is responsible for anything. I'd never, ever make fun of someone for being retarded, but I might call someone a retard when they are acting retarded.
I would never make fun of someone because of their gender, or mention that female paratroopers should wear jockstraps so they don't whistle on the way down. I'd never say that female west pointers don't wear skirts because their balls hang out.
I would never make fun of someone for being a member of the religion of peas, because if they don't want to eat meat, that's their choice.
I would never make someone I didn't know feel uncomfortable by telling them racist jokes on an elevator, while they stood right next to a black friend of mine, who tried to look angry without cracking up.
Nope. Not me.
Posted by: Chuck Z at November 08, 2009 01:47 AM (bMH2g)
Posted by: Sarah at November 08, 2009 08:20 AM (gWUle)
My Husband also gets made fun of for having an abnormally large head...
Posted by: awtm at November 08, 2009 09:01 AM (ZU1VI)
Posted by: Val at November 08, 2009 08:41 PM (5btL/)
I would have to disagree about the "Officers are people, too."
Yes, they are. But officers are in charge, and, as an enlisted, we take an oath to obey orders of officers appointed over us. Just as improper it is to cheat on your wife, it's that much MORE improper to have some oral sex in the oval office.
Definitely held to a higher standard. Sorry....
Posted by: allicadem at November 09, 2009 10:35 PM (Iu+5p)
Posted by: Tracy at November 11, 2009 12:58 AM (z1v+g)
Posted by: allicadem at November 14, 2009 10:30 AM (Iu+5p)
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