I have been trying to grok florian.
I have no idea what kind of person florian is -- man, woman, old, young -- but I know florian doesn't live in the same America I live in. I also know that we don't have any common ground, and you all know how important that is to me. I can't figure out what florian intends to accomplish here.
I'm not trying to be snarky at all; I seriously am curious why florian keeps reading my blog. I obviously care more about the American military than any other in-group I belong to, so posting links about turncoats is not going to make me re-evaluate how much I value our loyal and selfless servicemembers. Moreover, I obviously know that there are a few bad apples in the barrel, but I am absolutely certain that most servicemembers are not targeting civilians, as florian has tried to get me to admit. Every time florian comments, I tend to sigh and shake my head. I don't for one second consider re-thinking my position.
Which leads me to wonder about the in-between: I have basically given up on any hope for grey area. I see the world in black and white these days. There are good guys and bad guys; there are rights and wrongs. Researching, reading blogs, and trying to grok every day for the past eight months has been a double-edged sword: the more I learn about the world, the less likely I am to compromise on what I believe. When I am faced with looney imams, kids with AKs, and auctions of Jewish body parts on LGF every day, I am way less likely to give any credence to someone's argument that radical Islam is not the enemy. And, when faced with soldiers who organize charitable organizations, beg to return to Iraq despite the four-inch bullet hole in the forearm, and turn in their idiot buddies who torture prisoners, I am not at all likely to happily sit by and let florian sully everything they stand for. The more I read and learn, the less likely I am to be wishy-washy on my positions.
I do want to continue to grow as a person, and I do want to hear if someone disagrees with me on some details of my thoughts. But I don't learn anything from comments that are completely polar from my worldview. I could consider conceding some middle ground, but I'll never switch over to the other side. That, to me, seems to be what florian wants to accomplish.
I'm very curious, florian: why do you read my blog?
MORE TO GROK:
Florian responds in the comments, and then I respond above.
And is that really Steven Den Beste? I'm honored if it is.
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don't despair over the nutcases.....imagine mainstream American response to the Cannes Film Festival groveling before that gross pig Micael Moore....our observation here is that the "blame America first" crowd while although extremely verbal, continues to dwindle none the less. The reason is that they don't pass the smell test. Most reasonable Americans believe (rightly so I think) that most of our officials and soldiers will act in a reasonable way....i.e. reasonable people agree that the U.S. was "sucker punched" on 9-11 rather than subjugated to some wild conspiracy. Let the HAF crowd continue to make fools of themselves and the rest of us will be content by merely being proven right. Keep up the great work with your Blog Sarah....you are providing a great service!!!
APMS, AROTC, University of Southern California
Posted by: jim barclay at May 24, 2004 06:13 PM (0e6si)
As I read a couple of florian's comments, I wondered the same thing. The address is UK, not that it really matters. Florian simply seems to be looking for affirmation by trolling.
Posted by: Mike at May 24, 2004 08:28 PM (NZ4lg)
I don't doubt that you are unable to comprehend florians visits. You are quite a bit different as a person.
florian has been trying to get a rise out of you. He/she/it is not attempting to understand, or persuade, but rather to provoke a confrontation and an arguement. This serves not as an attempt to change your world view, but just as a vehicle for the arguement itself, as that is the goal. Attention, rather than understanding and growth, provocation rather than consideration.
You do not approach this medium with that outlook, you are looking to understand through reason.
Posted by: John at May 25, 2004 01:45 AM (crTpS)
You say you care about the US military, but I donÂ’t think so. You think you do, but there is something else underneath it. If you did, you wouldnÂ’t trash our soldiers by calling them Â“turncoatsÂ” when they decide it is their duty to tell the truth about the war. You would listen to them, the Zinnis, the Ritters, the Tagubas, the Masseys. Instead you disgrace the service of generals, of men and women who put their safety and security at risk by listening to their conscience. You say you donÂ’t remember the Cold War, but I do, and there is a kind of a Stalinism in your ability to immediately cut down fellow soldiers and colleagues who stray from the party line.
You say you care about Israel, but I donÂ’t think so. If you did, you would honor the Â“never againÂ” spirit in the actions of these soldiers. They understand the lesson of the Holocaust -- that soldiers and civilians must never blindly follow immoral orders or support immoral policies. Staff Sgt. Massey told his CO he felt they were committing genocide --murdering civilians, desecrating bodies. His CO called him a wimp. You probably would too.
Why do I read your site?
Partly fascination. At your site people call others Â“conspiracy theoristsÂ” and Â“nutcasesÂ” even though they themselves believed in the nutty Â“Saddam Behind 9-11, Ready To Use WMDÂ” conspiracy theory. At your site I see the pathology of a woman who uses the word Â“vaginitisÂ” to mean cowardice, who says the life of a child holding a US passport is worth more than one who doesnÂ’t.
Partly to monitor the war cheerleadersÂ’ websites, the collapse of the war effort in the drop off of comments, the doublethink. To read the open diary of a war cheerleader and see the effect of, for instance, the torture policy revelation -- in your case, spontaneous crying and a recourse to Ben Gay and puppies. Then after a few days the return to the denial mode -- the Â“just a few idiots did itÂ” argument.
Partly info: The great links you disagree with -- the vet turning old war posters into antiwar posters, the thoughtful antiwar writers. Strangely, you donÂ’t target extremists -- maybe because you donÂ’t see yourself as one -- but reasonable dissidence, and then I learn about them too. Thanks.
No, I wouldnÂ’t dream of making you Â“switch over to the other sideÂ” -- as your admitted black-and-white worldview sees it. I do check if any light can crack through it. (By the way, a black-and-white worldview is something you share with radical Islam. They say we become what we hate.)
Posted by: florian at May 26, 2004 05:27 PM (qva6a)
"...the vet turning old war posters into antiwar posters..."
That would be Micah Wright, wouldn't it? Who claimed to have been in the Rangers and to have been in combat in Panama etc.?
And who was exposed recently as never having served in the military at all?
It made the WaPo:
And once he knew the jig was up, he confessed.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at May 29, 2004 03:34 AM (CJBEv)
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