WHO'S DELAYING JUSTICE?
Holder has some nerve. From Marc Thiessen:
Only after KSM had been exhausted as an intelligence source did President Bush transfer him and 13 other terrorists to Guantanamo Bay,
Cuba, for trial by military commission. Once the legal obstacles had
been cleared in 2008, the commissions finally got underway. And when
they did, KSM and his co-conspirators all offered to plead guilty
before a military commission and proceed straight to execution.
With his decision to send them to civilian court, Holder has
effectively rejected KSM's guilty plea and told him, "No, Mr. Mohammed,
first let us give you that stage you wanted in New York to rally
jihadists, spread propaganda, and incite new attacks." Indeed, a lawyer
for one of the detainees has said that all five intend to plead not guilty
"so they can have a trial and try to get their message out." Were it
not for Holder, they'd be on death row instead of preparing for a trial
that will take years and make the O.J. Simpson case look like a traffic court hearing. And Holder chastises President Bush for delaying justice for 9/11 families?
1
I wonder if accepting his guilty plea and setting him up for execution would have been giving him and his ilk exactly what they wanted in making him a martyr. Seems to me there are downsides to each decision. I'm not excusing Holder, Obama, or any of the rest of them. I just don't see any choices that are completely acceptable.
Posted by: HomefrontSix at November 24, 2009 03:03 PM (umhCJ)
2
I agree that KSM wants martyrdom and that execution would give him what he wants. But giving him a stage in New York is also giving him what he wants. What are the alternatives? Detaining him for life at taxpayer expense? The jihadists could still use him for propaganda. So yes, "there are downsides to each decision." The enemy can exploit any outcome. Which of the worst outcomes is the best for us?
Posted by: Amritas at November 24, 2009 03:20 PM (+nV09)
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"And Holder chastises President Bush for delaying justice for 9/11 families?"
A-fucking-MEN!!!! to that statement. I seriously think L. Graham was on to something when he exposed that Holder and Obama are trying to criminalize the war. KSM can now plead not guilty by reason of insanity and Holder/Obama have the audacity to proclaim the outcome of the trial. Since when did we become Iran or the Soviet Union. I didn't know civilian court cases w/ due process had pre-determined verdicts. Gollygee wilickers!!!!
Posted by: BigD78 at November 25, 2009 09:55 AM (FFrzN)
Since when did we become Iran or the Soviet Union.
We became the USSA on November 4, 2008.
I didn't know civilian court cases w/ due process had pre-determined verdicts.
Due process is so old school. Now we have duh process. Where is Omerica's Andrei Vyshinsky?
In 1935 he became Prosecutor General of the USSR, the legal mastermind of Joseph Stalin's Great Purge. He is widely cited for the principle that "confession of the accused is the queen of evidence". His monograph that justifies this postulate, Theory of Judicial Proofs in Soviet Justice, was awarded the Stalin Prize in 1947. He was the prosecutor at the Moscow Trials of the Great Purge, lashing its defenseless victims with vituperative, sometimes cruelly witty rhetoric:
"Shoot these rabid dogs. Death to this gang who hide their ferocious teeth, their eagle claws, from the people! Down with that vulture Trotsky, from whose mouth a bloody venom drips, putrefying the great ideals of Marxism!... Down with these abject animals! Let's put an end once and for all to these miserable hybrids of foxes and pigs, these stinking corpses! Let's exterminate the mad dogs of capitalism, who want to tear to pieces the flower of our new Soviet nation! Let's push the bestial hatred they bear our leaders back down their own throats!"
Of course, the Omerican Vyshinsky would never speak of KSM in such terms. No, he would reserve his full verbal force for the truly deserving.
Posted by: kevin at November 25, 2009 07:41 PM (ogTuw)
FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME
Via Instapundit, who says, "A rule under which only politicians have guns strikes me as the worst of all possible worlds."
Chicago politicians are zealously
committed to gun control in law but fairly relaxed about it in
practice.
In 1994, State Sen. Rickey Hendon had an unregistered handgun
stolen from his home in a burglary, and he didn't feign
contrition about his disregard of the ordinance.
"I have a right to protect myself," he declared, noting that he
had been burglarized before—and forgetting that the state
legislature of which he is a member allows Illinois cities to
deprive their citizens of that right. Asked if he would replace
the lost piece, Hendon said, "No comment." The police were kind
enough not to charge him.
U.S. Sen. Roland Burris, another Chicagoan, has endorsed a
nationwide ban on handguns and, in 1993, organized Chicago's
first Gun Turn-in Day. But the following year, while running
unsuccessfully for governor, he admitted he owned a handgun—"for
protection," he explained—and hadn't seen fit to turn it in along
with those other firearms. Lesser mortals apparently can protect
themselves with forks and spoons.
So they write gun laws for the peons and have no intention of following the laws themselves. Politicians are a real piece of work.
Posted by: airforcewife at November 23, 2009 09:44 PM (uE3SA)
2
AFW, once again we agree! We are DIFFERENT. We are dominant!
In a perfect world that will be achieved through liberalism real soon now, there will be no more guns.
But in this imperfect world, Congresspersyns of the One Party are under perpetual threat from Republikulaks. Those who defend the masses' birthright to handouts must also have the right to defend themselves from those who don't believe in freebies. If the Rightist fanatics go rogue and harm our health care heroes, they'll never be able to pass the greatest bill in Omerican history - which of course won't affect them:
One of the most outrageous parts of Obamacare is that government
employees, politicians, and union employees are EXEMPT from it and will
continue to get their golden benefit packages. The GOP should have a
good ad out on this and be running it 1000 times a day on TV. If there
is anything people hate, it’s being told they are “less worthy†than
others.
Posted by: kevin at November 24, 2009 02:31 AM (ogTuw)
RIGGING THE GAME
So, I'm trying to understand this, really. The prison at Guantanamo is illegal and illegitimate, but Obama and Holder saying we'll try these men in NYC and, duh, of course they'll be convicted and will never be released...that's somehow more legitimate?
I heard someone on TV say, and I'm sorry I don't know who, that we all kinda thought OJ Simpson would be convicted too. Heh.
The whole point of a fair trial is that the person has a chance of being acquitted. If there is no chance of being acquitted, if the game is rigged from the outset, then there is no point in having a trial. So if you're going to guarantee that KSM will be convicted, you can't have a trial. It's simple. You cannot guarantee the outcome of a trial. If you do, it's a farce. And if we're setting all this up to be a farce, just leave them at Gitmo.
That's my major problem with this idea. But Lindsey Graham also brings up another facet of the issue that's just as troubling.
(And I agree with Goldberg that, "For those of us frustrated with Graham, this makes up for a lot." Heh.)
1
Does it disturb anyone else that the AG is wholly unprepared to discuss this topic with any depth or clarity? And, this is the man we're trusting to craft the arguments that are going to 'guarantee' a conviction of KSM. I mean, KSM already has a nickname...that's bad.
Also bad? Providing him with Constitutional rights equal to our own.
Even more bad? Creating a situation where IF he were acquitted or so much evidence is suppressed b/c the threshold in military court for evidence is different than civilian court, he should, technically, walk. Holder seems to suggest he wouldn't walk. Well, if that's the case, then why even have the trial? If he could walk, where is he walking? Holder seems to suggest it wouldn't be in the USA, but that it would be somewhere. Sorry, but "failure is not an option" is not an answer to what do we do if the jury sets him loose? Even a brand new trial attorney knows that strange crap happens when a jury is involved. Have evidence problems and it gets even trickier.
It seems like someone wants to put the past on display, air our secrets and do further damage to our ability to prosecute this war.
NOT happy with this decision. But, what else is new?
Posted by: Guard Wife at November 19, 2009 07:44 PM (I6LTM)
2
Schwing! Thank so much for sharing that...I feel so much smarter now.
Posted by: Kate at November 19, 2009 07:45 PM (J1l7A)
3
Um, my question was, where are they going to find a jury of his peers? And just by having the trial in the US, doesn't that almost automatically give them grounds for appeal, because it would be unfair...not to mention NY, near Ground Zero. Are they now going to decide that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is not going to be tried by a military tribunal (because he might claim that he is a military combattant or something)? And so let's say that the White House is going to strong arm the courts in NY to make sure a convinction happens, because failure isn't an option. It almost sounds like they aren't going to afford KSM due process, which nobody really cares about for that particular accused, but it perverts our legal system and creates a precedent for US citizens losing their rights as the accused. There is so much unbelievably wrong about this, that I hope they realize their mistake before it's too late. It is such a farce.
Posted by: Calivalleygirl at November 19, 2009 09:12 PM (irIko)
4
Day by Day showed us today where the jury of peers could be found, I thought that was a good idea, Chicago, of course. I almost came up with some respect for Graham over this, but still he has a LOT make up for.
Posted by: Ruth H at November 19, 2009 11:31 PM (WPw5a)
LIVING THE HIGH LIFE, ON OUR DIME
Mark Steyn would be happy: Uighurs are back in the news! At Powerline:
It's hard to know what to make of this, apart from the fact that the
world is a weird place, and getting weirder all the time. I'm fine with
resettling the Uighurs, but is it really necessary for U.S. taxpayers
to fund "spotless hardwood floors, a fresh coat of paint, new furniture
and appliances, and a sweeping view of the ocean"? Not to mention
housing, job training, food, and all other living expenses, including
air conditioning, cable television and high-speed internet, which is a
"rarity" in Palau. If the administration is looking for volunteers to
live at government expense in an island paradise, count me in.
No doubt these expenses are a drop in the bucket compared to the
trillions that the Obama administration is wasting here at home. But
could it be any clearer that we are living under a government that
treats our tax money--which is to say, our work; our time; our
lives--with contempt?
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A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi likened the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later.
"It provides coverage for 96 percent of Americans. It offers everyone,
regardless of health or income, the peace of mind that comes from
knowing they will have access to affordable health care when they need
it," said Rep. John Dingell
And like those other two things that passed, it will eventually end up costing far more money than ever expected and will be the downfall of the US.
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Is there a black ribbon we can wear or something? I'm so disgusted with our gov't, and apparently a 'mean, uncaring person' according to at least one person for not thinking this is the best piece of legislation ever passed.
Posted by: Mare at November 08, 2009 08:55 AM (HUa8I)
YES, WE'RE SERIOUS
Nothing burns me up more than politicians' contempt for people who want to adhere to the original constraints of our founding document.
Her sneering at the question makes me so mad I could scream.
A comment at youtube:
It has literally never occurred to any true Liberal Democrat that their policies should be in any way constrained by the U.S. Constitution.
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I DON'T GET IT
Personally, I think many people in our country are just plain goofy. When Republicans are in office, they want Democrats. When Democrats are in, they want Republicans. Look at the Rasmussen generic ballot poll. Last year, people couldn't wait to have a Dem. Now they're itchin' for an R. Is politics just a large-scale case of 'the grass is always greener'? What happened to voting on your principles?
I mean, a good number of these people in Virginia had to have voted for Pres Obama and then now voted for the Republican governor. That does not make sense.
I don't get it.
I think Krauthammer makes a good point about the 2008 election:
It tells you that '08
was a charisma election, a one-shot deal, and all this talk about
realignment, about a new era, of the death of Republicanism or
conservatism is utter nonsense.
It was an unusual
election last year. All the stars were aligned Democratic, charismatic
candidate. Still only a seven point victory. The return to the norm is
happening now, and we're going to see it tomorrow night.
I just don't understand voting on charisma, period. Vote your principles.
1
"I just don't understand voting on charisma, period. Vote your principles."
Ah, and therein lies the rub. I daresay the people who were expecting Obama to pay their mortgage & gas up their car as well as those as recently as a few weeks ago who were waiting on their "Obama money" either 1) voted their principles (gimme, gimme, gimme b/c I'm entitled) or 2) don't have principles.
Either way, this will go down in the history books as the example of "elections have consequences." I just hope that we can stop the mess before our kids also have to point to our pre-'08 life in the States and say, "this is how the United States was before it went to hell in a handbasket."
Posted by: Guard Wife at November 04, 2009 08:49 AM (p4/8e)
I think a lot of voter decisions work as follows: If I'm happy with the way things are going, I vote for the incumbent. If I'm not, I vote to throw him out.
Posted by: david foster at November 04, 2009 09:20 AM (uWlpq)
Noor Almaleki, whom I wrote about over the weekend, has died, the latest Western victim of a Muslim honor killing. If there were a Matthew Shepard murder every few months, Frank Rich et al would be going bananas about the "climate of hate" in our society, but you can run over your daughter, decapitate your wife, drown three teenage girls and a polygamous spouse, and progressive opinion and the press couldn't give a hoot. Indeed, as The Atlantic notes, it's merely an obsession of us right-wing kooks.
If you live in the United States, you are FAR more likely to be gay or be close to someone who is gay than you are to be close to someone who would engage in a Muslim Honor Killing (please read that slowly or it will sound like I'm saying something I'm not actually saying - *snort*).
Each "hate crime" death is more personal, because it hits close to home. Thus there is more of an impetus for SOMETHING TO BE DONE!!! And usually THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN is put in there somewhere, generally by Rosie O'Donnell.
Posted by: airforcewife at November 04, 2009 11:55 AM (uE3SA)
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