November 06, 2007
GREETING THE PRESIDENT
Last night I had a dream that Mrs.
Chuck Z and I were on a car trip to go meet the president. I woke up before I ever saw him, which was disappointing because I wonder what my subconscious would've cooked up to say to him.
So this morning, I was thinking about what I'd say if I had a few seconds to meet the president.
I think what I would like to say is to assure him that we're not a military family in distress. He gets all his info from the media too, so I'm sure he's heard that families are falling apart and that everyone blames him. But my husband and I feel very supported, very appreciated, and very in control of our destiny. We're not blaming anyone for where we are in life.
When we left the hospital the other day, my husband commented on how many resources there were for expecting families: classes, exercise groups, brochures, tours of the birthing unit, and all of it is free. The Army does so much for us and has so much to provide. We consider ourselves lucky to have such a support system behind us in everything we do.
So if I had a few seconds to greet the president, I would want him to know that we're happy, that we love this life, and that he doesn't need to attribute any of his grey hairs to us!
Posted by: Sarah at
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congrats to sarah russ and charlie! we are so happy for you.
all that stuff at the hospital though, isnt free. you guys work very hard for those things. those are benefits of the jobs that you do.
the army does have a lot of support above and beyond what most employers do. being in the army is not an easy job by far, but can be very rewarding.
best wishes for you with your family. its a wild ride from here on out.
patty
Posted by: patty at November 06, 2007 07:29 AM (4eMuD)
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I agree. That is one reason why we are heading back to Active Duty after 11 years. We love it and it loves us.
Posted by: Reasa at November 06, 2007 11:06 AM (vdL8w)
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what's the point of believing in the 2nd amendment if you support bush?
Posted by: Will at November 06, 2007 11:46 PM (JzKuA)
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Honestly, Will, I don't understand how your brain works. Explain to me why they're mutally exclusive.
Posted by: Sarah at November 07, 2007 04:46 AM (TWet1)
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October 01, 2007
WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING AND WHERE CAN THE REST OF US GET SOME?
I thought John Kerry's
"Service for College" program was pretty silly. I thought John Edwards'
"Get Ahead Accounts" were stepping over the line. But Hillary Clinton's
Throwing Money Around Like We Can Just Print More plan is really infuriating.
Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that every child born in the United States should get a $5,000 "baby bond" from the government to help pay for future costs of college or buying a home.
Clinton, her party's front-runner in the 2008 race, made the suggestion during a forum hosted by the Congressional Black Caucus.
"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so that when that young person turns 18 if they have finished high school they will be able to access it to go to college or maybe they will be able to make that downpayment on their first home," she said.
Obviously it would be irresponsible to suggest this to voters before she's had a chance to sit down and crunch the numbers, right?
The New York senator did not offer any estimate of the total cost of such a program or how she would pay for it. Approximately 4 million babies are born each year in the United States.
Oh. She's just speaking out of her ass then.
Clinton said such an account program would help people get back to the tradition of savings that she remembers as a child, and has become harder to accomplish in the face of rising college and housing costs.
One way of building a stronger economy, she said, is "more savings, starting with the so-called baby bonds idea where every person born in this country would be given that kind of account because we want to make an investment in America's young people."
The savings you remember as a child? Yeah, your parents did that. Not the government. Your parents made do without new SUVs and plasma TVs until they had a plan for their children's future. My parents put aside a little bit of money for us to have when we grew up -- heck, not nearly as much as Clinton suggests the government should give -- and never touched it, even when they desperately could've used it. They sacrificed so their children could have a good start as adults. All Hillary's crappy plan would do is prevent parents from doing any saving for their kids because the government would just do it for them. Why forego that ATV for the kids when the government's got their future covered?
There's nothin' like a Democrat plan to keep people hooked on government.
But there's really no point in getting worked up over this. Just like all those other stupid plans, this one will disappear. It just really irks me that she brings this up in public to get votes, knowing full well it will never happen.
Posted by: Sarah at
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No joke . . .
We heard this on the radio this morning. Someone brought up that the government would put it in an investment account for them (and only those who graduate high school would get the money -- so what happens to the money that doesn't get doled out???), at a rate of 2%. Oooh, in twenty years, kids would have a whole, whopping $7500. Housing prices can't have gone down in that time. Would that be a month's rent in D.C.?
And who pays for this? Ultimately, the taxpayers. The poor, who don't pay taxes, will not be contributing. And the rich, who know how to invest their money in such a way that they don't pay as much taxes, but can afford the $5000, regardless, won't be contributing. Yay for the working middle class! The heart, soul, and pocketbook of America!
Sorry, I'm also upset about this vote-buying plan.
Posted by: deltasierra at October 01, 2007 06:20 PM (r+3ie)
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DS -- She also says that every baby gets this, so the rich babies are also getting $5000? The parents who can afford it also can invest that five grand at way better than 2%, so their kids will be *losing* money by doing this!
Posted by: Sarah at October 02, 2007 02:47 AM (TWet1)
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Yeah, I forgot that part!
Sounds a bit like the Social Security debates, doesn't it?
Another thing I wondered was how that money would get to the kids. Given to the parents in the kids' names? Given directly to the kids? Either way, there's going to be some badly-handled money, and no changes to our "social problems". In fact, it might even exacerbate the problem our young people already have of taking money for granted and feeling entitled towards it.
Posted by: deltasierra at October 02, 2007 09:34 AM (r+3ie)
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DS -- This soundbite that she gave is completely devoid of details. There are major implementation problems! Who does the money go to? What if you don't want college or to buy a house? Someone else pointed out: what if the kid dies young? What about illegals?
But no need to worry...it's just for show.
Posted by: Sarah at October 02, 2007 10:14 AM (TWet1)
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ooh hillary she wants to help people!!!!1!!
what a bitch!!!1!!ONE!!!1!!!
help us, rudy! or fat freddy! or ronpaul!!!1!!!ONE!!
Posted by: Sam Seborn at October 02, 2007 02:51 PM (1Xr9i)
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Indeed, people trying to make society better makes me REALLY REALLY ANGRY.
SMAAASH
Posted by: Simba B at October 02, 2007 03:22 PM (Ne591)
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I doubt that any actual transfer of *money* would occur under this program during a Hillary administration. What would happen is that an entirely notional book entry for $5000 would be made for each child, representing a *debt* for which the government would be liable at some future time.
Alternatively, the government could use tax money to buy bonds from itself and transfer those bonds to the children. But this use of tax money would probably lead to a gap somewhere else in the budget, which would be filled by issuing more debt, probably mostly to citizens and governments of other countries.
So, one way or the other, it probably turns into deb, to be repaid during someone else's administration.
Posted by: david foster at October 02, 2007 06:02 PM (F+K3/)
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you DO remember "math" don't you?
0.73% of our nat'l spending. that's what she's talking about.
Golly, gee - how EVER could we afford it?
~oldphort
Posted by: oldphort at October 03, 2007 11:53 AM (Q7L9O)
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Seriously?
OMG, you just made my day by posting this. I hadn't heard about this yet. At least I got a good laugh out of it!
All you hear about it how the Republicans drove us into debt- but this is okay somehow? Geesh...
I think that woman is an idiot, by the way.
Posted by: Kasey at October 03, 2007 01:04 PM (tttDj)
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May 20, 2007
DISGUSTED
Last night we watched
The Last King of Scotland, and I was so disgusted at the end of the movie that I lost sleep over it. Yes, I know the story portrayed is fiction, but Idi Amin was most certainly real.
What disgusts me the most is that there are rulers out there like Amin, yet people persist in calling President Bush evil. Have we no sense of evil? People in North Korea are eating children, but some American citizens can't stand to be associated with the American flag.
Google gets 1,850,000 hits for "George Bush evil" but only 178,000 for "Idi Amin evil." 65,700 for Arafat; 623,000 for Kim Jong-Il; and 264,000 for Mugabe.
We make me sick.
Posted by: Sarah at
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I think you're missing the larger point here. The US did not go into Iraq to get rid of a cruel ruler. The war was because of WMD which have not yet materialized. The reason for war has now morphed into the whole "getting rid of a cruel ruler".
On the other hand, if we are talking about cruel rulers and exploitation of people, why has the US only targeted Iraq, when there are numerous other countries out there in the same - if not worse - conditions: Sudan, North Korea, Tibet, etc.
Posted by: aidan at May 22, 2007 04:18 AM (KFGe9)
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On the contrary, I think you're missing the point. The word "evil" shouldn't be associated more frequently with "Bush" than with honest-to-god despots. No matter what one thinks of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the word "evil" really shouldn't enter into it.
Posted by: Sarah at May 22, 2007 05:27 AM (vrR+j)
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Forget it, Sarah. He's just trying to feed the meme.
He probably didn't even read your article, just saw "Bush" and "evil" and then started pasting...
Posted by: Patrick Chester at May 23, 2007 02:24 PM (MKaa5)
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May 14, 2007
May 08, 2007
THANK YOU
I had a moment yesterday where I was confronted with the fact that I am indeed a crazy person. Some of you know how obsessed I am with thank you cards, but to me it seems like completely normal behavior to thank a person who's done something nice for you. And I promise you I didn't think anything of it until my husband cracked up at me for walking towards the mailbox with a thank you card for President Bush. He was nice enough to send us a DVD speech, so he deserves a thank you, right? That doesn't seem normal to you? The look on my husband's face was priceless.
I swear I never even stopped to think about whether I should send him a card or not. The only hard decision was choosing which stationery seemed the most...presidential. Yep, I'm nuts.
Posted by: Sarah at
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I think it's the PERFECT thing to do.
But do tell, did you go with the embossed or the linen?
Posted by: Tammi at May 08, 2007 05:08 AM (Bitcf)
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No, not weird, because in a few weeks you will probably get a note in return, with the Seal of the President and return address that says White House in Royal Blue ink.
Its pretty cool to get that!
Posted by: TIM C at May 08, 2007 06:36 AM (SAiJg)
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I'm raising my kids to be just like you.
Posted by: airforcewife at May 08, 2007 07:30 AM (0dU3f)
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April 16, 2007
TOKEN
There's an argument going on at
Political Radar over Hillary Clinton's qualifications for being president. I thought this comment by "colin" was spot-on:
Yeah it would be nice to have a woman be our President. But we cheapen the historical significance of such an event by putting our hands over our eyes to the weaknesses of a female presidential candidate just so we have a skirt at the podium with the seal of the President of the United States.
That's how Halle Berry won an Oscar, and it's the driving force behind affirmative action. When you pick someone based on anything other than his actual qualifications, you are screwing up. Who wants a token for a president?
Posted by: Sarah at
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Well ever since there has been mumblings that Fred Thompson might run, I have had such an "I don't care" attitude about everyone else. It's like when you're fresh in love and no matter what happens: you spill milk on the table cloth, the cat craps in you suitcase, the sprinklers doused the newspaper...oh, who cares? Life is good! A breath of fresh air...I am so excited about this.
Posted by: CaliValleyGirl at April 16, 2007 05:48 AM (deur4)
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Hillary was first in her class at Yale Law School. Please don't pretend that she's an affirmative action hire.
Posted by: H.Gerberger at April 16, 2007 04:56 PM (eA20k)
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H.Gerberger -- I'm not arguing whether or not she's smart enough to be president. I'm simply saying that voting for her *just because she's a woman* is absurd. That was the content of that comments section.
Posted by: Sarah at April 17, 2007 01:25 AM (vrR+j)
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what a bunch of crap sarah - think about all the people who voted for Bush cause they wanted a "cowboy" president. everybody votes for the token they want, and candidates, men or women, encourage it.
Posted by: Will at April 18, 2007 09:36 AM (soQkB)
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November 01, 2006
BOTCHED JOKE INDEED
OK, let's give Kerry the benefit of the doubt here and assume he was trying to
make fun of President Bush instead of the troops. So what's the joke then? Study hard, kids, so one day you will grow up to be...
not as dumb as the President of the United States? What kind of joke is that? Don't parents usually urge kids to study so they don't have to flip burgers, not so they won't become flipping President of the United States and make a decision that über-liberal senators disagree with? Good lord, one would hope that a presidential candidate would show more respect for the office of the presidency than that. I think it's foolhardy to send the message to young people that the president is someone to mock and jeer. As if young people these days could get
more disrespectful of adults; Kerry doesn't need to fuel that fire.
Not to mention that the joke doesn't work very well, considering Bush and Kerry got roughly the same grades in college. And Kerry's wife doesn't even know what chili is. Let's not call any kettles black here.
MORE TO GROK:
WhoÂ’s the real flunky? Someone tell Kerry itÂ’s not military via RofaSix
MORE:
Hahahahha. You HAVE to click on this photo from Iraq...
Posted by: Sarah at
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Funny! Love that photo . . .
Posted by: heidi at November 01, 2006 09:31 AM (E0L31)
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Sarah - I love your blog. I have never commented but have very similar political beliefs. John Kerry is ridiculous. I dont even know how else to describe his remarks. What an ass. I'll leave it at that. I just saw that he apologized for anyone who thought they were offensive. Whatever...
God Bless our troops.
PS - That picture is PRICELESS.
Posted by: keri at November 01, 2006 01:08 PM (PgLZz)
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John Kerry should sit down and shut up. He's like the Mark Foley of the democratic party... except without the homosexual pedophilia thing.
At the same time, I know what it's like being "stuck" at a shitty job, and maybe some people over there do feel stuck right now. So I don't think it's a big deal to say so.
Posted by: Will at November 01, 2006 05:09 PM (QRBGL)
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That pictures is awesome!
Interesting note....I had my 17 year old listen to the comments and without any input from me, he assumed Kerry was referring to Bush and his handling of Iraq.
Now, my husband and I dont' align with any party 100%, but my sons response surprises me. How could he hear it that way?
Can a person be born a Democrat? LOL
Posted by: Vonn at November 01, 2006 06:54 PM (/VoEr)
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Maybe the right has reading comprehension problems, I read the text of the speech, and it was damned clear to me he was busting little Georgies chops. I served too, and I too think this president and his staff has FUCKED UP monumentally, "that is just my opinion, I could be wrong". As Dennis Miller used to say back in the days when he was actually funny
Posted by: BubbaBoBobBrain at November 01, 2006 08:16 PM (8ruhu)
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Oh man, Bubba. Dennis Miller is still the funniest man on the block.
Posted by: Sarah at November 02, 2006 04:32 AM (7Wklx)
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Small world note!
One of the managers where I work noted that the third soldier from the left is his nephew.
Small, small, small world!
Posted by: Vonn at November 02, 2006 07:14 AM (Xpg1G)
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June 22, 2006
SARIN
I happened to be flipping channels this morning and saw Santorum talking about the
sarin shells that have been found in Iraq. It's not exactly a fat man and little boy pointed straight at NYC, but it's something at least worth talking about. The Fox and Friends people asked Santorum why Bush isn't shouting this from the rooftops, and he said that the White House is no longer interested in debating the reason we went to war in the first place. And the Fox people simply reamed the president. They said that he has a duty to discuss this because most of the country is still discussing it, and that since we as a country are paying for this war, we deserve to still talk about the reason it happened. They went off, and I think they have a point.
I personally believe that history will be on President Bush's side. No one liked Lincoln at the time, but now he's the only president many people can name, and I have a feeling that history could treat Bush similarly. But sometimes I get annoyed that he seems to be sitting back and letting history take her sweet time. 500 sarin shells isn't all we expected Iraq to have, but I think the American public needs to know it was found. Santorum shouldn't have to go on a crusade to present information that most Americans would be interested in hearing. I don't think it should be a "ha, we told you so" revelation, but the info should be put out there. I think those Fox people were right: much of the country is still quite wrapped up in the WMD debate, and they need all the facts in order to hold informed opinions. And this fact somewhat justifies the president; I have no idea why he wouldn't want to put it out there.
But what I don't understand could fill a warehouse.
Posted by: Sarah at
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I agree. The President's job is to keep the country as informed as possible in time of war. Talking to the people of the country is one of his jobs. Whether or not he uses the correct and fancy words - he needs to talk. This has always bothered me about Mr. Bush. It seems as if he is of the opinion - I've already said this, I shouldn't have to repeat myself. He's very wrong in that regard.
Posted by: Teresa at June 22, 2006 11:11 AM (jgXyO)
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If I recall correctly there were both sarin and mustard agents.
Question: Do you still have a copy of that report I e-mailed you and the pics about the exposure to a single half-century old mustard artillery round that I sent you waaaaaay back in the day?
Kalroy
Posted by: Kalroy at June 22, 2006 06:00 PM (9RG5y)
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Yes, Kalroy, it was both sarin and mustard agents. The only talk I heard was "Yeah, but they were old, some being pre-Gulf War I." It still doesn't matter; Saddam said he got rid of everything, and obviously he didn't. I also think Bush should address the issue. Anytime there's a revelation such as this, it gets swept under the carpet, and then half of the US doesn't learn the truth.
Nancy
Posted by: Nancy at June 22, 2006 08:40 PM (Dbnx3)
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A desperate political stunt by "Dead Fetus in My Bed" Santorum. Have some more koolaid http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13480264/
Posted by: question at June 25, 2006 01:23 PM (n17hK)
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Since you posted the same comment on two posts, I'll post the same response...
Question -- how is this statement, taken from your link, different from the quotes I provided?
"We were able to determine that [the missile] is, in fact, degraded and ... is consistent with what we would expect from finding a munition that was dated back to pre-Gulf War," an intelligence official told NBC. "However, even in the degraded state, our assessment is that they could pose an up-to-lethal hazard if used in attacks against coalition forces."
Your link just said the exact same thing my post said...
Posted by: Sarah at June 25, 2006 02:24 PM (YL5y0)
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This is just more of the wanting to have it both ways that the anti-Bush crowd seems to be so fond of.
It should be quite plain that there's a movement in this country that would find fault with this administration if they figured out a way to run automobiles on water, found a cure for cancer, and developed better head protection for NHL players. While I do agree that Bush needs to communicate more effectively than he does at times on a number of different issues, I can understand the hesitancy to throw raw meat to his detractors.
I find it interesting that Gore's movie backed by questionable scientific research gets "rave" reviews and attention while Mr. Bush's claims go mostly unnoticed. Guess that's just the way things are going to be until we get some balance out there...or until the media chooses to go back to reporting news in stead of spinning it.
See you on the high ground.
MajorDad1984
Posted by: MajorDad1984 at June 28, 2006 01:56 AM (j7S/Q)
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Exactly! Thank you,Sarah!
Posted by: MaryIndiana at June 30, 2006 06:15 AM (kQJht)
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I'm with MajorDad on this one.
Kalroy
Posted by: Kalroy at June 30, 2006 08:49 PM (9RG5y)
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February 08, 2006
FUNERAL OR RALLY?
My husband and I watched part of the Coretta Scott King funeral last night and were completely shocked at what a political rally it became. We missed what President Bush had said because we tuned in right as Pres. Carter started speaking. We were both disgusted at his references to wiretapping and Hurricane Katrina. And the icing on the cake was when he snubbed President Bush and wouldn't even shake his hand. He came off as a real asshole, pardon my language. Pres. Bush 41 was witty and uplifting. Pres. Clinton naturally was a compelling speaker, but we were both a bit surprised at how overtly religious his speech was. I always have the feeling that Pres. Bush is the same man in public as behind closed doors, but Pres. Clinton seems to be whoever is needed at the moment. I guess that's a normal quality for a politician to have, but I don't necessarily think it's an endearing quality. And then Hillary Clinton spoke: did anyone else think it was a bit creepy that she focused so much on Coretta standing by her man? Somehow I think it's weird to see the Clintons at a podium talking about strength in marriage. Maybe it's just me.
Overall the whole thing was weird and completely un-funeral-like. I did like what Pres. Clinton had to say, reminding us all that Coretta Scott King was a woman and not just a symbol. I thought the whole thing was a bit smarmy, using this poor woman's death as a chance to reach out to the black community, as if every politician there were saying "see, look at me, I care about black people."
And once again, President Bush has to sit there and smile while everyone blames him for war, racism, and poverty. The man is a saint to take so much abuse with such grace. I'd've punched Carter in the flippin' mouth.
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Dang...I'm glad I didn't watch it...
Posted by: Erin at February 08, 2006 05:23 AM (pZh/t)
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I didn't see it, and can't comment much. Let's face it, though; the whole thing was a political event through and through from the very beginning. W didn't have any relationship with Mrs. King, as far as I'm aware. He was there because of politics. As far as W. being the same person in public and private, have you read/heard about the story that Tucker Carlson wrote about being alone with Bush in a limo during the 2000 campaign, when Bush was still Governor of Texas? They were getting ready to execute Karla Faye Tucker. If you recall, she had asked for clemency on the grounds of having become a Christian and changed her life. W. mocked her, saying something like "Boo Hoo Hoo, please don't kill me." I don't think that even he would do that in public. Since Carlson is a conservative, he apparently thought that he could get away with it. They say he takes after his mother, after all, and she is notoriously different in private from her grandmotherly public image.
I found what Carlson wrote. This is in Talk magazine, Sept. 1999:
Bush's brand of forthright tough-guy populism can be appealing, and it has played well in Texas. Yet occasionally there are flashes of meanness visible beneath it.
While driving back from the speech later that day, Bush mentions Karla Faye Tucker, a double murderer who was executed in Texas last year. In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, Bianca Jagger and a number of other protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Tucker. 'Did you meet with any of them?' I ask.
Bush whips around and stares at me. 'No, I didn't meet with any of them,' he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. 'I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with [Tucker], though. He asked her real difficult questions, like 'What would you say to Governor Bush?' 'What was her answer?' I wonder.
'Please,' Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, 'don't kill me.'
I must look shocked -- ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel, even for someone as militantly anticrime as Bush -- because he immediately stops smirking.
Posted by: Pericles at February 08, 2006 08:08 AM (eKf5G)
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Hmm. No, I've never heard that story before, and simply based on what you've written here (I have to leave in ten minutes and don't have time to read more), I don't think it's that weird of a story. I don't know the details of this double murder, but why should Bush feel sorry for Tucker? Heck, I bet I probably made the same annoyed joke about Tookie Williams. Conversion to Christianity is not at all a reason for clemency, at least not for me. So the story doesn't seem that odd to me.
Pericles, do you think the Clintons are really as religious as they profess in public? They were both spouting Bible verses at the funeral like they were in a contest to see who could say the most. Do you think that's real or faked up just to appear pious?
I didn't mean that Bush would never say something in private that he'd regret in public -- heck, NONE of us would want everything we say to be public. But I meant that people see him as a religious man, and from my understanding he really does pray before meals and meetings and in times of struggle. My husband and I just were wondering if Clinton is as religious at home as he appears to be the minute he walks before a black congregation...
Posted by: Sarah at February 08, 2006 09:07 AM (qzdMp)
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I agree with you! I only saw the clips on the news but one was a guy talking about WMD not being found and that they only found weapons of misdirection . . . how is that remotely related to this woman and is that something to talk about at a funeral? I too thought it was funny that Hillary talked about "Standing By Her Man" . . . didn't she make reference to that song when she was defending her husband for his White House scandal and draw fire? This may be a little out there and draw some negative reaction but I never thought of Mrs. King as the "Mother of Civil Rights" as so many have called her . . . she carried on her husband's goal but was what she did more significant than Rosa Parks? Now, Mrs. Parks was the Mother of Civil Rights to me . . . she had some courage to do what she did! I like that double contraction . . . I'd've!
Posted by: Heidi at February 08, 2006 10:41 AM (E0L31)
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Heidi -- I too thought the same thing last night. My first thought was, "Um, what has Coretta done lately?" Her husband and she worked honorably for civil rights, which I can completely respect, but I was surprised that her funeral was such a big to-do...
Posted by: Sarah at February 08, 2006 11:45 AM (qzdMp)
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Carter is the best thing that can happen to Republicans. He continues to remind voters why he was the worst President in history!
Posted by: Tanker at February 08, 2006 11:56 AM (btzDE)
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On C-Span they showed the whole 5 hour long funeral, and I like a dummy, watched the whole thing. It was funny at times and very moving, but also very political. Everyone except Bill and Hillary Clinton and former President Bush, took a shot at President Bush.Most of the funeral was boring. The very best part was the singing and the little bit of preaching that was done...What got me was it was 5 hours long....
Posted by: Mrs.Oz at February 08, 2006 12:59 PM (hQUsz)
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Well we can all see how much her legacy meant to those who used her funeral as an opportunity to spew out more useless rhetoric...I'm sorry but no matter what President Carter says, no one will forget the late 1970s, especially not the Economics textbooks (how I learned about his wonderful legacy...). How easy it is for past Presidents to criticize the current when they're not in the same situation.
Posted by: Nicole at February 08, 2006 02:20 PM (KJBDI)
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I don't have any particular insight into the Clintons' religosity. My gut instinct is that it is more real for him than for her. I think that he is a complex guy. You kind of imply that he is a hypocrite, and given some of the stuff he's done I can kind of understand that, but I almost think it is something else with him. I think of a hypocrite as someone who says things that he knows he doesn't really believe. I think that Clinton is absolutely convinced of what he says when he says it, even if at other times he says something else that contradicts it. He believes that, too, 100%. I'm almost attributing a multiple personality or a failure to grasp basic logic to him, and maybe that is worse. He's a deeply flawwed guy, and yet in many rspects was an excellent President, IMHO. I'll pull the lever for HRC if she gets he nomination, but of the Dems who have expressed an interest, I'm most enthused about former Virginia Governor Mark Warner.
Posted by: Pericles at February 08, 2006 02:48 PM (ra2qX)
10
For the record:
If SOMEONE should be referred to as the “Mother of Civil Rights” look towards actions that made a difference, such as; Jane Addams , Linda Brown of Brown v. The Board of Education, and Mamie Till.
1909: Co-Founder of the NAACP
1954: Overturned “Separate but Equal”
1955: August 28, murder of Emmett Till
All came before Rosa Parks and the King family.
Mrs. Rosa Parks accomplishments:
In the early 1950s, Parks became active in the American Civil Rights Movement and worked as a secretary for the Montgomery, Alabama branch of the NAACP. Just six months before her arrest, she had attended the Highlander Folk School, an education center for workers' rights and racial equality.
On December 1, 1955, in Montgomery, Parks, while sitting in the black section of the bus, refused to obey a public bus driver's orders to give up her seat to a white man and move to the back of the bus to make extra seats for whites. Rosa was tired of being treated as a second-class citizen and stood firmly. She was arrested, tried, and convicted for disorderly conduct and for violating a local ordinance.
http://www.montgomeryboycott.com/bio_rparks.htm
Mrs. Coretta Scott KingÂ’s other accomplishments:
• spoke/preached at St. Paul's Cathedral in England
• created, planned, and sought funding for the Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change in Atlanta
• established in 1969 the annual Coretta Scott King Award to honor African American authors of outstanding educational writings
• established in 1979 an additional Award to honor African American illustrators
• assured recognition for the civil rights movement by seeing her late husband’s birthday become a national holiday
• co-chaired the Full Employment Action Council, instituted the Black Leadership Forum, the National Black Coalition for Voter Participation and the Black Leadership Roundtable
• sought to bring out the truth of her husband’s assassination by establishing that Ray did not act alone in the commission of the murder, but was instead part of a larger conspiracy; because of the materials she had gathered over the years, a 1999 Tennessee jury found that the assassination was the result of a conspiracy, not of the action of a lone killer
Most recently, Mrs. King was heard speaking out against capital punishment and the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. She further supports lesbian/gay rights causes and is an ardent supporter of AIDS/HIV education and prevention.
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art30373.asp
Posted by: Vonn at February 08, 2006 06:03 PM (dEgRi)
11
And add to the Kings' history, it was Robert "Bobby" Kennedy (Ted's older brother) who wiretapped MLK's phones, and knew of his calls with a commie sympathizer and of course of his "affairs".
Mr. Jimmy Carter failed to mention that fact when he made his comment about wiretaps. He chose to imply President Bush was at fault.
Misinformation abounds when Liberals get access to a mike and TV camera. To heck with the facts.
I'm hoping Condi Rice will run for President, but if she doesn't, then John McCain is my choice.
I do believe in the death sentence and believe when automatic death sentence for convicted pedophiles is passed, our children will be a whole lot safer. All IMHO, naturally.
Good post and discussion.
Posted by: Chevy Rose at February 08, 2006 07:34 PM (Of5G0)
12
I just have to ask... why isn't life in prison without parole good enough for pedophiles? Our children wandering in our prisons? Is the fear that the legal system will screw up and release them anyway? Well, if have to be that worried about the legal system screwing up, then hw do we trust it to make sure that only the right people are executed?
Posted by: Pericles at February 08, 2006 08:09 PM (ra2qX)
13
I watched some parts of the funeral while flipping around the dial when it was rerun on Cspan last night. I saw eugolies by one of Muhammed X's daughters and by Maya Angelou which were very sincere and eloquent. The daughter said that Mrs.King had always been like a second mother to the six children of her mother, always sent birthday cards and gifts and even as late as last November had reached out to her. It was very much like many funerals I have seen. It is such a shame that some politicos took all the limelight and you had to watch Cspan to get the true spirit of a memorial. I thought the President's words were very good and in keeping with the spirit of a memorial.
Posted by: Ruth H at February 08, 2006 08:39 PM (jDZSA)
14
darn! should have run that post past spellchecker!
EULOGIES, EULOGIES, EULOGIES... do I have to type it ten times, teach?
Posted by: Ruth H at February 08, 2006 08:41 PM (jDZSA)
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We always leave it up to the close friends and families of the deceased to use their best judgment as to how that person would want his or her life to be commemorated. The organizers of funerals for those involved in politics usually do mention the political causes they've spent their life fighting for, and so should it be. That is appropriately honoring them.
King was a political person who fought for political causes. Not just for "black people should be allowed to vote," but for issues that are still controversial today. The Bush administration has in many ways fought against her work. When Bush overruled the opinion of professional lawyers that the Texas re-redistricting plan violated the Voting Rights Act, they were fighting against King. When they filed a brief encouraging the Supreme Court to restrict affirmative action in college admissions, they were fighting against King. She committed her efforts to support gay rights and oppose the Federal Marriage Amendment, which the Bush administration pushed.
Are those who make eulogies supposed to pretend all those conflicts never happened to avoid offending the easily offended sensibilities of Republican politicians who by and large do not support King's work? Should we not have anyone at the funeral of a soldier who died in Iraq say that they died fighting for a noble cause, since saying such can be viewed as a political statement?
Posted by: Mr. Silly at February 08, 2006 11:54 PM (Q+kim)
16
(cont'd)
I thought the general Republican/Conservative media reaction to Wellstone's funeral was really just spin, and I see the same here. I am honestly more far offended by those who would criticize the funeral of a fighter for civil rights to try to gain a partisan edge through spin, a spin from partisans who ultimately promote an agenda working to undo what King and others have fought for. Far better that Kings or Wellstone's friends say what they King or Wellstone themselves would have said, and better that they sharing the passion and inspiration that the deceased inspired, than blather out empty platitudes for fear of offending the hyper-sensitive.
I notice that nobody complained about McCain politicizing at Goldwater's funeral. Are there double-standards at work here?
http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Newscenter.ViewPressRelease&Content_id=992
Posted by: Mr. Silly at February 08, 2006 11:55 PM (Q+kim)
17
Mr. Silly...and I'm not arguing that you're not...I think you're giving Mr. Bush far more power than the Constitution when you want to raise the issue of Texas redistricting and affirmative action decisions regarding college admissions.
Texas redistricting (and I'm sure in other locales based on the 2000 census) was indeed upheld by the courts. Sorry, but those were in place before Mr. Bush took office...so go cry on their black robes.
Regarding affirmative action policies at public institutions, don't you think we're getting a little bit past the point where they were actually necessary? I think Dr. King would be appalled that "we" were still willing to treat people of any color differently from one another. We're coming up on being 150 years beyond the Emancipation Proclamation and 50 years from meaningful Civil Rights reform in this country. Just how long will policies that discriminate against European Americans based on the color of their skin be necessary? I would like to think that Dr. King would be more aligned with the thinking of Bill Cosby than that of Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton these days.
See you on the high ground!
MajorDad1984
Posted by: MajorDad1984 at February 09, 2006 08:19 AM (j7S/Q)
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MajorDad,
I am afraid I was not especially clear as I was typing quickly. The Bush admin. did not push through but did explicitly support the redistricting, and allowed DHS resources to be used by DeLay to hunt down the missing Dems. Since you seem unfamiliar with the issue, I might remind you that the redistricting case is still in the courts - its legality has not been decided. Note also that it was only one example of a list (which I could have easily expanded), and arguing about it is just a rat hole, as it individually has no bearing on the greater point.
"Regarding affirmative action policies at public institutions, don't you think we're getting a little bit past the point where they were actually necessary? I think Dr. King would be appalled that "we" were still willing to treat people of any color differently from one another."
If I were to pretend to channel the spirit of MLK, I think that the spirit I spoke with would speak quite differently than what you imagined, but we are necessarily in a realm of speculation. With the degree to which racism still has been shown by recent studies to both be surprisingly common in the U.S., and that it still affects things such as hiring practices, makes me doubt that were he to take the position that ending affirmative action altogether would neither benefit the black community or America as a whole. He may indeed have held that the black community has to do a lot of work to do on themselves, as with Cosby, but this is not a contradiction of the earlier view - note that Cosby himself has not criticized affirmative action.
I wonder if you intentionally chose to switch the subject to MLK as a distractor, given that the speech was at Coretta Scott King's funeral. She has made her views quite clear through her life that she still supported affirmative action.
"Just how long will policies that discriminate against European Americans based on the color of their skin be necessary?"
It's hard to say, perhaps when it has been clearly demonstrated in a way that all can agree to that it is not a benefit to either the black community nor to the country as a whole.
Affirmative action has been softened, dropped in many areas, and decreased in others as you can see in this timeline:
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/affirmativetimeline1.html
While institutional racism is gone, its remnants are still fading. Affirmative action was a countermeasure to help resolve those issues, and the data shows that the degree to which the institutionalization of the countermeasures have begun to fade. Hopefully there will be a day when both will be gone. Since the remnants of the former are not gone today, it makes sense that the countermeasures still persists.
Posted by: Mr Silly at February 09, 2006 11:22 PM (KaSTy)
19
Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan on the funeral:
"There was nothing prissy, nothing sissy about it. A former president, a softly gray-haired and chronically dyspeptic gentleman who seems to have judged the world to be just barely deserving of his presence, pointedly insulted a sitting president who was, in fact, sitting right behind him. The Clintons unveiled their 2008 campaign. A rhyming preacher, one of the old lions, a man of warmth and stature, freely used the occasion to verbally bop the sitting president on the head.
So what? This was the authentic sound of a vibrant democracy doing its thing. It was the exact opposite of the frightened and prissy attitude that if you draw a picture I don't like, I'll have to kill you.
It was: We do free speech here.
That funeral honored us, and the world could learn a lot from watching it. The U.S. government should send all six hours of it throughout the World Wide Web and to every country on earth, because it said more about who we are than any number of decorous U.N. speeches and formal diplomatic declarations.
A moment for a distinction that must be made. Some have compared Mrs. King's funeral to the Paul Wellstone memorial. It was not like the Wellstone memorial, and you'd have to be as dim and false as Al Franken to say it was. The Wellstone memorial was marked not by joy but anger. It was at moments sour, even dark. There was famous booing.
The King funeral was nothing like this. It was gracious, full of applause and cheers and amens. It was loving even when it was political. It had spirit, not rage. That's part of why it was beautiful."
Posted by: Pericles at February 13, 2006 08:58 AM (eKf5G)
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December 02, 2005
LEAVE HER ALONE ALREADY
I didn't see
this particular reporter badger Laura Bush, but I did see some other reporter (don't remember her name or which network) annoy Mrs. Bush in front of the White House Christmas tree. I must say that Mrs. Bush is the height of class. This reporter asked her if President Bush is feeling nervous this Christmas because of Rove and Libby; Mrs. Bush deflected all of her family's complaints, saying that any Christmas is hard when we're at war and when loved ones are far. She refused to let the reporter bug her about politics and kept returning to praise of our troops and their families. I thought it was touching, but maybe Jessica Yellin took it as an invitation to talk Iraq and try to make Mrs. Bush look heartless. What a low blow.
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That darn liberal media. After all Hillary Clinton was always treated with the utmost respect by the press and by conservatives in general.
Posted by: Mr. Silly at December 02, 2005 07:47 PM (OLZjb)
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September 05, 2005
NO COMPARISON
Daily Kos said that Hurricane Katrina was worse than 9/11. I believe Charles Johnson is right in
saying that some people want nothing more than to downplay what happened to our country that day. There's no comparison between 9/11 and a natural disaster.

Look into this man's eyes. He flew an airplane into a building in a calculated and deliberate attempt to kill as many Americans as possible. He worked hard, studied hard, and trained to attack the United States and leave death in his wake. He is a monster and a nothing.
To intentionally compare what he did on that infamous September morn to what happened in New Orleans is beyond my comprehension. Deliberate murder is not really the same as dropping the ball during a natural disaster. There will be time yet for a hundred visions and revisions once the chaos of Hurricane Katrina has subsided, but right now people need to focus more on working for the present and future instead of pointing fingers into the past.

Unfortunately, this poor man is once again being blamed for everything. The way some people are jawing, you'd think President Bush borrowed Halle Berry's white wig and conjured up a big storm to try to kill him some black people. Or that if he'd only signed Kyoto as zee Germans told him he should, the hurricane would've been avoided. News flash: President Bush is not to blame for everything bad that happens in this world.
Varifrank wonders why anyone in his right mind would ever, ever, ever want to be president. President Bush acts pre-emptively and he's blasted for not waiting on the UN. He waits for his advisors on Katrina and he's blasted for not acting quickly enough. Last time he was suppsed to drop My Pet Goat and run into the burning buildings himself. And then sit around and wait for Hans Blix for another few years. And apparently now he should've immediately flown down to Louisiana with "a hundred helicopters dumping concrete blocks, crushed cars, barges, and anything else they could get, into the breach" to save the day.
What happened in New Orleans is terrible: Mother Nature can be a bitch, no doubt. But the only thing that Katrina has in common with 9/11 is that neither of them were President Bush's fault.
As Ben Stein says, Get Off His Back.
MORE TO GROK:
Porretto also said it better than I could:
I applaud DubyaÂ’s election, re-election, and his overall performance in office because I am persuaded, by everything IÂ’ve learned about his conduct, both in full view of the cameras and in less well publicized settings, that he is an honest man. He says what he means, to the best of his ability to express it, and does what he says heÂ’ll do, to the best of his ability to do it. The probability that his successor will be as honest and responsible is vanishingly small; consider the list of candidates for his position and see if you can disagree.
Yet this honest, sincere, remarkably generous and gentle man, who rose against savage opposition to the most powerful, most scrutinized, most pressured office on Earth, is subject to carping from all sides. Some of it is more vicious than any American public figure has ever endured. Some of it is based, not on his actual conduct, efforts, or results, but on his criticsÂ’ dislike of his priorities. And some of it, tragically, is emanating from the very persons who claim to hold those priorities themselves.
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I don't think that people are blaming Bush for the hurricane. That is stupid and noone is doing that. The problem is, for people on the left AND the right, is that it is difficult to fathom how, after 9-11, the department created specifically to deal with national preparedness in a multi-faceted way, to deal with situations like this (even if it is "unprecedented" could drop the ball. 9-11, if you generously buy Bush's argument, was unpredictable at least by the criteria of having "actionable intelligence." in order to prevent or mitigate the damage inflicted. This hurricane, and the damage done by thhe horrendous flooding of New Orleans, WAS one of the top 3 most predicted catastrophes to hit the united States along with an earthquake in California and another terrorist atack on New York or Washington. Plus, they were given 2 whole days once the hurricanes course was plotted, to prepare before the storm hit! HOW is it possible that FEMA annd the Dept. of Homeland Security could be so hopelessly disrganized and unprepared for this unfolding disaster? If Wal-Mart could get 3 tractor trailers of water and food into the disaster area, why couldnn't the government and military of the United States? Why is a man whose previous job (from which he was fired for inncompetence) was as a lawyer for the Int'l Arabian Horse Assoc, with no experience whatsoever in the field of emergency services, in charge of FEMA, the govt's point agency in crises? We're not blaming Bush for the Hurricane, we're questioning his priorities and his competence. I don't expect him to jump on an airboat or pilot a rescue helicopter himself, but I do expect him (and the rest of his admministration to at least cut their vacation short in order to deal with the worst natural disaster to hit the US in decades if not a century? (I'm told Cheney is still on vacation). you will disagree with me, obviously, but I believe Bush's actions (or rather inactions) inn this regard are completely indefensible. They will now try to spin this failure off onto the Governor of La and the mayor of NOLA, but the fact remians that the dept of Homeland security, Bush's own creation, "assumes primary responsibility" for everything in these situations. The scary thing is.... if Bush and Co. screwed up this disaster so badly, (and Iraq, despite what I see on AFN and FOX is not looking so hot either) what will the response be like when, not if, we suffer a catastrophhic terrorist attack? I don't want to destroy Bush, I want him to step up to the plate. give us a president we can believe in, not apologize for.
Posted by: for petes sake at September 05, 2005 07:37 AM (ioMUi)
2
Actually, in response to the 1st commenter, there ARE people blaming Bush. Consiracy theorists are claiming that Hurrican Katrina was man-made and they're taking this very very seriously (and there are more than you think on that off-side).
Meanwhile. I'm not even pro-Bush and I tire of everyone becoming expert disaster-fixers. Everyone knows better than the people in place. But those people aren't doing anything much other than point fingers & bitch.
That people could compare 9-11 to Katrina is odd but not surprising to me. The 2 have nothing but deaths in common; and a willed death shouldn't be compared to a natural disaster. I think it takes away from both events than to compare them to each other. I'm sure the people of NOLA and other affected regions would be pretty pissed off if they could follow the news right now.
Posted by: Julie at September 05, 2005 09:18 AM (BJrVf)
3
There are different dimensions along which these events can be compared. In terms of lives lost, cost to rebuild, etc., Katrina WAS worse. There are other dimenions, moral ones, on which 9/11 was worse.
Posted by: Pericles at September 05, 2005 10:53 AM (EpPuP)
4
I think the people who were stucked in NOLA are pissed of already, and they will have to find out at who. For those who died, well they won't point fingers and bitch any more.
Posted by: bap at September 05, 2005 12:17 PM (ZE8n3)
5
Here's the Kos quote:
"This is the greatest disaster to hit our nation in most of our lifetimes. Worse than 9-11. New Orleans is underwater. Biloxi is 90 percent destroyed. Who knows how many dead. Who knows how many homeless. Who knows how many jobless. We have a bona fide refugee crisis on our hands."
I don't see anything to disagree with there. There will be more dead. There will be more damage. Why the tirade against that statement? It seems more like an attempt to distract people from the outrageous failures of DHS/FEMA, and demonize people that Charles would despise no matter what they said.
Posted by: VOT at September 05, 2005 07:26 PM (lq5rN)
6
"But the only thing that Katrina has in common with 9/11 is that neither of them were President Bush's fault."
Well, Bush didn't cause the hurricane, but he was directly responsible for a great deal of the havoc caused by it. Through through the 'wetland protection act,' he pave the wetlands that would have proteeted the levies fro the storm surge. He also cut the budgets of FEMA to the bone, and the Army Corp of Engineers so that no work was done on the levies. He also has done nothing to slow CO2 emissions. There is not absolute link between this hurricane and global warming, but at this point there is a consensus among scientists that global warning is caused by greenhouse gas emissions, and that the hurricane's sevarity was due to unusually high temperatures in the gulf.
Bush also failed to sign off on mobilizing the Navy for days:
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/5167.html
Bush also waited four days to sign off on allowing Nat'l guard from other states to enter LA:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_national_guard
He wasn't responsible for the hurricane, but his choices in governance have had a huge impact on the scale of the disaster and the number of deaths it has caused.
Finally, haven't we visited the 'Bush is an honest guy' thing enough times now? There have been enought lies he has stated brought up in various discussions that you haven't been able to refute. Instead you just ignore them.
The bottom line here is that you really have a serious problem. By ignoring the clear evidence in front of you because it doesn't fit with your partisan ideas of how things should be, you are in a chronic state of ignorance.
A person needs to have the courage to take a look at the way things actually are, and be willing to admit that you are wrong before that person can understand a situation. By pretending that Bush is an honest person you are ignoring reality. No president has ever been honest. Politicians lie to get power. Bush has lied more than many, and if you had any courage at all you would be able to recognize that.
You claim that you are 'trying to grok,' which was why I visited and ommented. But you aren't really trying to grok at all. You think you have it all figured out, and you can't learn until you figure out that you don't. I'm not pretending I am enlightened, but I will say that I am happy to admint my errors, and I am willing to have my beliefs challenged, and I am am happy to be shown when I am wrong, since I take it as being cured of ignorance. Understanding the way things are is far important than supporting any politician, or any political party.
Posted by: VOT at September 05, 2005 08:03 PM (lq5rN)
7
I think this makes it clear that Sept. 11 really changed nothing. Four years after 9/11, the biggest seaport in the US gets destroyed and THIS is the best the Feds could do? Do you think the terrorists won't notice how utterly pathetic our response has been and take some notes? The fact that there has been so much confusion about whose responsibility this all is/was, points out that Bush's restructuring of FEMA under DHS was a disaster on its own, and that disaster is an obvious huge opening in our national security right now. What has Bush been doing for the last four years that we could get a response to a disaster like this? We had some advanced notice that this was coming, we won't have any notice for an attack from a terrorist. And the best response that Bush can come up with for FEMA failing to assert the authority they had is to blame the victims, blame the mayor and blame the Governor? There is no question that the Feds. dropped the ball here, will Bush ever take responsibility for any administration screwup ever? Bush ran on a platform of 'personal responsibility,' in a society where this is scarce, and at one point had my support, but not any more. Since when did 'personal responsibility' get redefined to 'deflect blame at all costs?' And now the Bush administration is lying to reporters at Newsweek, the Washinton Post, and who knows where else through 'anonymous sources' saying that Blanco did not ask for help. The only reason you would lie to cover your ass, is because you know you screwed up. I used to think he was, but now I know Bush is not honest. He is not a good man. He is a coward who will not take responsibility for any error he has made, and will lie about others to try to deflect the blame, and he has put our nation at risk by not taking responsibility for the job he had. I have never been so disgusted. I guess it's time to vote Libertarian.
Posted by: ex-republican at September 05, 2005 10:00 PM (usuh/)
8
Have you been out spreading loon-bait in the garden again, Sarah?
Sigh.
Compare the federal response to Katrina with that to previous hurricanes, and you'll find that it is significantly faster and better co-ordinated. Far from perfect, but better than in the past.
However, the city and state performance in New Orleans and Louisiana in general has been abysmal. The city has first responsibility,
then the state,
then the feds. It takes tune to organise the response at the federal level, and city and state officials know that. And yet, they not only sat on their hands but actively obstructed federal efforts.
The reason people are blaming the mayor and the governor is that they
failed. Actively. The governor wouldn't call up the National Guard - her responsibility, her authority, and she did not use it - wouldn't even hand that authority over to the feds. New Orleans had a comprehensive disaster plan, and they simply didn't implement it.
It's interesting to compare the disastrous situation in New Orleans with the situation in Mississippi, which actually caught the worst of the storm, but wasn't saddled with direly incompetent local and state governments.
The feds aren't going to be there half an hour after the storm goes through. That's why you're supposed to keep non-perishable food and bottled water on hand, that's why the city is supposed to have it's own disaster response plans, and the same for the state. If the first three rungs of the ladder all fail, that is hardly the fault of the fourth rung.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 05, 2005 11:19 PM (RbYVY)
9
I guess it's time to vote Libertarian.
Well, sure. And then there would be no federal disaster management at all, so you'd have no-one to bitch at.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 05, 2005 11:20 PM (RbYVY)
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Pixy,
I'm started a clooection for you in case you still feel the need to pretend that the Governor and Mayor are the only ones screwing up:
FEMA won't accept Amtrak's help in evacuations:
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e2511c8.html
FEMA turns away power generators:
http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html
FEMA prevents Coast Guard from delivering diesel fuel:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05blame.html?ex=1283572800&en=1d14ebfbd942a7d0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
FEMA won't allow Red Cross deliver food:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm
FEMA blocks morticians from entering New Orleans:
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15147862&BRD=1817&PAG=461&dept_id=68561&rfi=6
FEMA snubs Chicago's offer of assistance -Send just one truck:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902daley,1,2011979.story?coll=chi-news-hed
Posted by: VOT at September 06, 2005 01:40 AM (usuh/)
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"Nice job repeating party-line talking points"
Oh, the irony.
Posted by: Patrick Chester at September 06, 2005 04:33 AM (MKaa5)
12
FEMA does seem to have screwed up more than once, and Michael Brown has said some stupid things. Michelle Malkin (for one) has been posting on this.
But the feds aren't supposed to be first on the scene, and they were on the scene faster than they have been in previous situations. As fast as they could have been? Coast guard helicopters were rescuing people even before the hurricane had fully passed. I'm sure that some things could have, should have been done better.
But leaving hundreds of buses, intended for evacuation in the city's own plans, on ground
expected to be flooded? Evacuating tens of thousands of people to the Superdome and the Civic Centre
with no supplies?
I'll check your point on the national guard - if that was wrong, and she
did call them out in a timely manner, then that is in Governor Blanco's favour.
But the key point is this: The feds won't be on the scene in force for 72 to 96 hours. Everyone knows that; in fact in previous events it's taken much longer. The city and state have to be prepared to cover those 3 to 4 days. They
know that. It's written into their plans. (It
is written into the NO disaster management plans.) The city and the state need to be able to cover those days because they are
already on the scene, they don't have to move supplies over flooded roads and downed bridges; they are already there.
The city and the state weren't prepared for
anything at all.
If you want to say that once FEMA arrived they weren't as organised as the should have been, I'll probably agree wholeheartedly. If you want to blame the first four days of hell on the feds, then you lose.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 06, 2005 05:55 AM (RbYVY)
13
Yes, I misconstrued a post on another blog. Governor Blanco did indeed call out the National Guard; she may be criticised on other points but not for failing to do so. I apologise.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 06, 2005 06:08 AM (RbYVY)
14
This detailed timeline makes everyone look better than the media reports - Mayor Nagin, Governor Blanco, President Bush, FEMA, the Army - everyone except the New Orleans Police Dept. and the looters.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 06, 2005 08:46 AM (QriEg)
15
It also invalidates another one of my points - the "no supplies" point was wrong.
From the timeline, we see an adequate if not exceptional response from the local, state and federal authorities (and an exceptional response from the military).
What we also see is a lot of people turning into idiots the moment they are facing a TV camera.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 06, 2005 08:51 AM (QriEg)
16
interesting debate. glad i started it. Thank you Pixy and VOT, I'm sure the truth is probably somewhere in between.
Just a small interesting tidbit about the New Orleans PD...
These poor bastards apparently have a starting wage just barely above the poverty line. only about $4000/year above.
no wonder these people have been deserting in droves and have appalling morale, they'd make better money at Wal-Mart. I read today that between 400-500 cops aren't reporting for duty and that there have been several suicides this past week. Not to mention pictures of cops themselves looting some of the stores.
Is this common in the USA? As someone whose lived abroad for a long time, I had no idea. I have a hard time believing Canadian or German cops (I live at a US military installation in germany) are paid so little to do so much and have so much expected of them.
Posted by: for petes sake at September 06, 2005 12:32 PM (84RM4)
17
Here is a link that I thought you and your readers might enjoy. God bless you and your husband who stand at the wall and keeps the wolf at bay. You folks are a beacon of sanity in a world that seems to be more and more insane.
Tribes
Posted by: Plowman at September 07, 2005 06:20 PM (zvtzh)
18
"this poor man" is supposed to be the president of the United States. He can take the heat, or he can damn well stay out of the kitchen.
Posted by: braz at September 10, 2005 04:12 AM (yBvja)
19
Compare the federal response to Katrina with that to previous hurricanes, and you'll find that it is significantly faster and better co-ordinated.
I don't believe this. Links?
Posted by: jpe at September 11, 2005 02:22 AM (BbZqu)
20
jpe, compare the response to Ivan (after which "Brownie" really should have been fired) or that to Andrew when big George was president, and you'll see that the response to Katrina doesn't stack up that badly.When the inept are compared to the incompetent all things even out.
Posted by: Braz at September 12, 2005 02:19 AM (cdGLg)
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August 16, 2005
August 03, 2005
USCH
Dear President Bush,
Please stop doing stuff and things that make me not like you.
Sincerely,
Sarah
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1
i don't think "intelligent design" is science, and it shouldn't be taught in science classes. But really, President Bush was asked his opinion and he gave it. The man's entitled to his opinion. People are getting bent out of shape over this as if he had
proposed a federal law mandating such. He has not. This is just part of the sneaky way reporters try to earn points with the religious phobia crowd who think Bush is trying to install a theocracy. They set the President up with these questions and then they use his honest answer to whip up a mass hysteria. Then it's like "Oh my God, the president
supports teaching creationism in schools!!!" Well, yah. Is that a surprise? He's a born again Christian. Most evangelicals feel that way. It's a totally different matter than if he had said, "I support the so-and-so law that would make Creationism theory mandatory in all schools." But he'd never do that, because there would be such a shit storm it would make the war protests look silly. And plus, it would be totally unconstitutional.
Posted by: annika at August 03, 2005 05:43 PM (zAOEU)
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He gave his honest answer; fair enough. They reported it; that is their job, and he knew he was on the record. If he didn't want his answer reported he could have declined to give an answer, or given one of the non-answers politicians know how to give. I don't see reporters trying to whip up mass hysteria, and I don't see anything sneaky about it. Surely questions about what policies the President would like the government to adopt are legitimate, even if they aren't policies that he is on the verge of trying to enact.
Posted by: Pericles at August 03, 2005 08:12 PM (hHudX)
3
Sarah,
Transcript follows:
"Q I wanted to ask you about the -- what seems to be a growing debate over evolution versus intelligent design. What are your personal views on that, and do you think both should be taught in public schools?
THE PRESIDENT: I think -- as I said, harking back to my days as my governor -- both you and Herman are doing a fine job of dragging me back to the past. (Laughter.) Then, I said that, first of all, that decision should be made to local school districts, but I felt like both sides ought to be properly taught.
Q Both sides should be properly taught?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, people -- so people can understand what the debate is about.
Q So the answer accepts the validity of intelligent design as an alternative to evolution?
THE PRESIDENT: I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought, and I'm not suggesting -- you're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, and the answer is yes."
You see how the reporters are the ones who put words in his mouth? They decided he means he believes in Intelligent Design and he is a kook. He didn't sayso. He just says both sides should be taught correctly so people know what they are arguing about.
I don't see how that translates into teaching creationism or intelligent design as a science class. It seems to me that it says tell the kids what evolution and intelligent design are defined as, and let them decide whether their parents religious beliefs or the accepted theories of Darwin are valid or are even compatible.
I think you (and all the media) jumped the gun on this one, Sarah. I am Catholic. Obviously we are taught that God created the world and everything in it. Just because he chose evolution to get us to this point doesn't mean he didn't cause it or allow it to happen, and it sure doesn't mean He doesn't exist. But how do you prove a negative? You don't. That's why it's called "Faith".
Subsunk
Posted by: Subsunk at August 03, 2005 09:43 PM (cvVOc)
4
This is just one more front in the Republican war against science. If you didn't know about it you weren't paying atention.
Posted by: Dave L. at August 03, 2005 11:44 PM (NhNku)
5
Subsunk,
Don't bother us with the facts. We know the TRUTH...
Posted by: Sean at August 04, 2005 12:51 PM (BN/Fu)
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June 13, 2005
SICK
My in-laws are visiting, so I haven't been sitting at the computer much. This weekend we went to Nuremburg and spent some time at the Dokumentationszentrum Reichsparteitagsgelande, which is a heck of a name for the
Nazi Party Rally Grounds. To be honest, besides a few details, we didn't learn much at the museum, but I did get to see footage of Nazi rallies and photos of Hitler's adoring crowds. And walking through the museum, I couldn't help but think of the travesty that is modern comparison. Googling "Bush Hitler" brings 2,140,000 hits, including a
website that tracks Bush=Hitler comments. ("Saddam Hitler" only brings a third as many hits, despite the fact that if we have to compare
someone to Hitler, as all are wont to do these days, Saddam fits much nicer in my eyes.) And seeing things like
this t-shirt and this
German website about how much Bush is like Hitler make me absolutely sick. Even worse are the websites where people claim that Hitler was
better than Bush.
As I walked through that museum, I grew angry at both the past and at the present. But time revealed the true horrors of 1930s Germany, just as I believe time will vindicate the early 2000s someday. I just wish we didn't have to wait that long.
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1
Yeah, it's interesting. At that time, there was a tendency by the general public in Germany, to justify the anti-semitism, by saying the Jews had brought it upon themselves. And nowadays there is a tendency by many to justifying the actions of terrorists, by saying that America has brought it upon itself.
Posted by: CaliValleyGirl at June 13, 2005 12:33 PM (l6qZ1)
2
Sarah,
"Sick" is the only way to put it. That's the only word I could think of when I clicked on those links.
Posted by: Erin at June 13, 2005 03:43 PM (IB4rq)
3
Those who forget the past (or bastardize it) are doomed to repeat it.
So, will we recognize the real danger when it rears its' head? Probably not. I just heard a poll result that 6 out of 10 Americans think we should get out of Iraq.
Posted by: Pamela at June 13, 2005 07:56 PM (E34Gm)
4
Saw a show the other day where German high schoolers were talking about the Holocost. One kid said, "Yeah, it was bad, but not as bad as the Americans in Vietnam."
Whaaaaaa?
Posted by: MargeinMI at June 14, 2005 10:00 AM (u0NOA)
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June 07, 2005
HAH
I've been avoiding the computer because it makes me too sad, but I know Bunker would've been one of the first people to tell me to get back in the saddle. It's just depressing when I scan my list of links and momentarily think "oh, I wonder if Bunker's written anything new?" and then the lump in my throat returns. But something caught my eye that I wanted to write about, so I'm gonna cowboy up and keep blogging.
John Kerry is stupid.
Well, I mean, if everyone is going to say that President Bush is stupid, then they should say the same about Kerry because they had the same grades in college. Actually, it appears that Kerry's are maybe even a shade worse, so it's no wonder he didn't release these records until after the campaign.
If Bush is a moron, what does that make Kerry?
MORE TO GROK:
Kerry is also a dog.
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1
If GWB was into alcohol (and supposedly, maybe drugs) in college, and got the same grades - what does
that say about Kerry, too?!
Glad to see you overcoming your sadness - in a way, think of it as a tribute to Bunker when you write :-)
Posted by: Barb at June 07, 2005 06:02 PM (hF0Vm)
2
Making these sorts of arguments really makes you look bad.
Bush was never blamed for his stupidity due to his grades, he was blamed for his stupidity for his poor diction, his appearance (he makes a lot of facial gestures that really do look dumb), is blamed for being stupid for of making many decisions that some disagreee with (as it is with others they don't agree with), is blamed for being stupid since he wears his religion on his sleeve, and is blamed for being stupid because his responses to questions often are nearly incoherent.
It would be easy to argue with a number of those reasons listed - appearances can be deceptive, most of the great minds of history were religious men, etc. I don't agree with most of those points above (though he really is bad at answering questions without a script), I an just listing them as the actual reasons Bush is accused of being dumb.
Talking about grades is a red herring. At best you inadvertently used a debater's trick, at worst you were deliberately abusing cheap debater's tricks to score a political point. Whatever the case, the argument is disengenuous, and if you want to address people's criticism's of Bush, you should work on addressing the actual reasons, not making straw-man arguments. It doesn't matter what side of a debate you are on, abusing reason brings the discourse down, and it the opposite of trying to 'grok'.
Posted by: VOT at June 07, 2005 07:03 PM (BUIek)
3
At least Bush was smart enough to not embrace avowed enemies of his country.
Posted by: Walter E. Wallis at June 07, 2005 09:44 PM (zJ4Tq)
4
My analysis of the "Kerry is smarter" assertion here:
http://photoncourier.blogspot.com/2004_09_01_photoncourier_archive.html#109422760433909117
Posted by: David Foster at June 08, 2005 01:33 AM (7TmYw)
5
Sheesh! You got some rather defensive reactions, didn't you, Sarah?
I just wanted to say that I'm glad you're back! And I think you're right about Bunker wanting it this way.
Posted by: Dave at June 08, 2005 10:21 AM (c6xQA)
6
Kerry isn't a dog. He's a Munster.
As to Bush, I do recall his grades being quoted as proof that he was stupid, and not simply his bucolic speech. Tell you what, though, quoting his speech as proof of his lack of intelligence pissed me off to no end and showed that the left was populated by elitist bigots who look down their noses at average joes, such as myself.
Kalroy
Posted by: Kalroy at June 08, 2005 11:30 PM (9RG5y)
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I note that VOT has not correctly punctuated his sentences - note "people's criticism's." There's one extra possessive there, VOT. Also, you left out a verb in your last sentence.
Regardless of your grades, your poor grammar skills lead me to believe that you are an idiot. I can only guess what your facial expressions reveal.
Kerry is an idiot. You can base that on grades, facial tics and licks, or run-on sentences. He's not Lurch from the Munsters, more Mr. Howell on Gilligan's Island - a lockjaw, 'sophisticated' loser.
Posted by: Oda Mae at June 09, 2005 11:37 AM (iZBrs)
8
Oda,
I never said a thing about what grades I got in school, nor is it relevant. It looks like you didn't understand my actual point. Instead you went nitpicking about typos, and then dropped ad hominem attacks.
My point was that Sarah wasn't addressing the reasons why the Leftists call Bush dumb, and that we should be addressing their actual points instead of setting up a straw man.
Finally, I was saying that Bush *wasn't* dumb. When you came along and posited that facial expressions really do indicate intelligence, you just added credence to the Bush bashers point.
Posted by: VOT at June 09, 2005 05:56 PM (axdvp)
9
Well if Oda Mae can not remember that "Lurch" was a character on "The Addams Family" , and not "The Munsters", we must call her intellect in to question. ;-)
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at June 09, 2005 09:20 PM (aHbua)
10
VOT -- I think it's revisionist to say that "Bush was never blamed for his stupidity due to his grades", because that argument has come up numerous times. One can't just say that grades aren't important now that it's been shown Kerry and Gore have the same grades.
I did some googling and quickly found some instances of Bush's grades being cited in articles about how stupid he is. (I'm sure if I dug harder, I could find even more.) See
here,
here, Molly Ivins'
book Shrub, and
here, where I hope this writer is eating major crow, since last year he said, "Does anyone in America doubt that Kerry has a higher IQ than Bush? I'm sure their SATs and college transcripts would put Kerry far ahead."
It was always assumed that Kerry was smarter than Bush, and, yes, Bush's mediocre grades were used to justify that statement. I'm aware the fact that he "looks like a chimp" is also used, but don't pretend that Bush haters didn't eat up his college transcript.
Posted by: Sarah at June 10, 2005 02:43 AM (gemCS)
11
Hey Sarah,
I followed those links. You are correct. I was incorrect.
Now that I think about it, I recall that it came up more around 2000, and when Gore's grades came out the question of grades suddenly was dropped.
Posted by: VOT at June 10, 2005 12:57 PM (axdvp)
12
I know it's just one excuse of many, but it is used as one
Posted by: Sarah at June 11, 2005 02:01 AM (T0QKb)
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February 21, 2005
TODAY
Today is Presidents' Day. I love all of the men who have taken on the burden of leading our country, but today I especially think of the current president, the man who would rather be right than be popular.
Thank you, President Bush. I hope you have a great day.
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January 31, 2005
STATUE
Seems the mayor of Baghdad wants to
erect a statue of President Bush. I could go for that. I think he deserves a statue that's not made of paper mache or burning in effigy.
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1
You know that the terrorists (not freedom fighters, militants or guerillas) would be driving VBIEDs and launching RPGs against it on an hourly basis though.
Posted by: mdmhvonpa at January 31, 2005 10:28 AM (/D3gv)
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January 20, 2005
INAUGURATION
There's lots of pissing and moaning in my office today about the inauguration. I'm really not in the mood for it today, and I'm getting really anxious to get the hell out of this office. I can tell how ready I am by the way I am forcing myself not to swear like a sailor.
This is the only thing I want to hear about that stupid inauguration today:
The 16th Second Inaugural
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I am sitting here watching the beginning of it (FOX News of course). It's a good day...and I'm not going to let anyone ruin this. Those that are boycotting and taking down blogs in protest, well - I'm just amazed. I refuse to listen to the crap today. Won't do it. Nope.
I do hope you get to see some of it.
Posted by: Tammi at January 20, 2005 10:46 AM (HaRi0)
2
They are not biased? I dont reacall what they did for the Clinton 2nd Inauguration.
Posted by: mdmhvonpa at January 20, 2005 12:10 PM (iMbx+)
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January 09, 2005
LIARS
I have no idea why I started thinking about this today.
I remember exactly where I was when President Clinton admitted that he had lied about his affair. I remember it vividly because I was so sad. I felt so hurt and betrayed, not because he fooled around with a skank, but because he had shattered my trust in him. I know the words honesty and politician don't often go together, but more than anything I want our president to display integrity. President Clinton hurt my feelings when he admitted that he had outright lied, and it hurt as if he had looked me in the eye and lied to only me.
The real problem I have with this is that President Clinton can't even hide behind semantics. My mom and I had a lengthy argument a few years ago about the definition of "sex" as it applied to President Clinton. Mom was appalled to hear that the definition of sex has changed for young people. I think there was a major generation gap during the Clinton impeachment between the generation that thinks sex is anything that happens with your clothes off and the generation that thinks sex is only intercourse. Much to my mother's dismay, the strict definition of the word "sex" only includes intercourse for young people, many of whom brushed off President Clinton's lie because of semantics: to them, he really didn't have sex with Lewinsky. The problem is that that's not what he said. He said he didn't have "sexual relations" with her, so he can't even hide behind the new definition of sex. He flat out lied.
Den Beste wrote long ago about two types of liars, as proposed by Martin Gardner: "A strict liar knows the truth and makes statements which contradict it. A creative liar knows the truth and makes statements which are intended to deceive the listener." President Clinton wasn't even being a creative liar, masking his deeds in the vague definition of "sex". He was a strict liar, which is what made me so durned disappointed in him.
Which brings me to thoughts on the world's most frequently branded liar. A lengthy chunk from Den Beste:
There were a number of reasons why the question of Iraqi WMDs occupied such a central place in the political discussion, but there was never a correlation between the amount of attention paid to various arguments and their importance. And there are a number of other points that can be made about the entire question of WMDs and the process of deciding whether to invade. But what I wanted to talk about here was the specific question of whether Bush lied. Is it actually correct to refer to Bush's claims regarding Iraqi WMDs as being "lies"?
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that WMDs were the sole reason for the invasion, even though that isn't even remotely true. Let's further assume, for the sake of argument, that Iraq had indeed fully destroyed all its WMDs and all its banned equipment and that Saddam had no intention whatever of reviving its WMD development programs after the international political heat had been alleviated. Ignore for the moment the fact that there was nearly universal consensus that Iraq still had some WMDs, including UN agencies and international opponents of war such as France and sundry NGOs, not to mention the Clinton administration right up until Bush's inauguration.
So if Bush made the claim that Iraq still represented a threat because of its WMDs, did that make him a liar?
Not necessarily. It is not the case that everyone who utters a falsehood is lying. Someone can only be held to be a liar if they knew the truth at the time they spoke. A truth teller knows the truth and makes accurate statements about it. A strict liar knows the truth and makes statements which contradict it. A creative liar knows the truth and makes statements which are intended to deceive the listener. But there are several other possibilities; those three cases are not comprehensive. In particular, a person who is convinced that what they are saying is true is not a liar even if they're wrong.
Someone who is misinformed, and who genuinely believes that misinformation is not a liar simply because they repeat the misinformation or act on it. They can be accused of many things, such as gullibility, but not of lying.
All of the rhetoric about "lying" obscures the fact that this is an inductive process, not a deductive one, and words like "truth", "falsehood" and "lie" have to be interpreted entirely differently in the hazy world of inductive logic. As a practical matter, no one in the US government (or anywhere else) had conclusive evidence one way or the other about whether Iraq had WMDs or retained means and motivation to continue developing them once it became possible to do so. In fact, after we invaded evidence developed that even Saddam didn't truly know.
All the Bush administration had to work from were hints and calculations and imperfect reports from sources of less-than-ideal credibility; that's how it usually is in intelligence work. It's not crystal clear vision; you're usually trying to identify hazy shapes in the fog.
In other words, at the time Bush made the kinds of statements which my leftist friends have been referring to as "lies", what he had access to were reports which said that Iraq might still have any or all of those things, along with at least some degree of calculation of how likely it was.
And even if those reports and calculations were wrong, or if the calculated probability was low, that doesn't mean that acting on them was wrong.
The claim that Bush lied gets thrown around more than John Kerry's football. And I've often read in comments sections where lefties say that Bush hatred is nothing worse than Clinton hatred. I have a real problem with that statement.
I don't hate President Clinton, but he sure let me down. He made himself a strict liar based on his personal life -- things he was directly in control of -- as opposed to intelligence gathering or foreign policy. President Bush might have speculated incorrectly about WMDs in Iraq, but President Clinton knew damn well what he was doing behind closed doors. At the end of the day, that makes a big difference to me.
But President Bush is the world's biggest liar, and always will be. Sigh.
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Bush has lied his way through his life. He virtually always knew full well that he was making false statements when he made them. He lied in his bio about his service in the Nat'l Guard. He lied when he was on the board of Harken. When he was Governor of TX. he lied about his illegal campaign financing cover ups over Dignity Memorial (under oath). He lied about attempts to acquire Uranium from Niger - he either knew that the evidence to support this were forgeries or was incredibly and inexcusably ignorant (I knew he was lying about it since I listened to the forgeries discussed in the IAEA report broadcast on most public stations months earlier). The way you are dancing around Bush's dishonesty now is as bad as the semantic games Clinton played.
Posted by: VOT at January 09, 2005 06:37 PM (MiV8c)
2
You know that George Bush "virtually always" knew full well that he was lying?
Really! How did you manage to learn that? Do you have pictures too?
You could maybe get on TV and make lots of money writing a book about it.
Your super-powers will probably be unappreciated here by simpletons like Sarah or the rest of the simpletons like me who read her blog.
Unless maybe you are an actual fly-on-the-wall in which case the manner of acquisition of your knowledge isn't particularly startling, but how the hell do flies manage the typing?
They don't usually get into politics, but the typing trick would be a sure thing for Animal Planet's Pet Stars.
Posted by: Rev. Churchmouse at January 10, 2005 05:00 AM (Kgld4)
3
I too knew Bush lied about WMD. I knew because I had been paying attention to news about Iraq for the 10 years prior to his invasion and knew that the WMD has all been destroyed, or rendered useless by chemical deteriation over time and the impossiblity of maintenence due to the sanctions. But when Bush said emphatically that Iraq had WMD then I was willing to pay attentionm and, if his evidence was sound, to change my mind. But he never offered any evidence. And worse, when he had inspectors in Iraq searching high and low for WMD, using whatever information Bush gave them to find those weapons, and they came up empty, then I knew, I knew, Bush lied.
Posted by: good to go at January 10, 2005 12:23 PM (ywZa8)
4
"Really! How did you manage to learn that?"
You don't need to be a fly on the wall to figure out when someone is lying - if that were the case then we would have some tremendous problems with our legal system.
I noticed most of his lies by simply paying attention to the news, keeping up on current events, and listening to various gov't reports. When the facts are clear before Bush made statements that do not match those facts, Bush is either intentionally lying or is an ignoramus. I do not think he is an ignoramus. It strikes me as virtually impossible that an average joe like me would know the facts about political matters that the president wouldn't.
In all the cases I cited, it is clear that he knowingly lied (and I could go on with a very extensive list of lies he has spewed if you would like). When you make a statement about a situation that is incorrect, but the error is due to ignorance, that is not a lie, it is just a mistake. Lying is inherently stating as fact that which you know not to be true.
BTW, trying to say that Bush is not really a liar but has just made a lot of mistakes isn't really a good defense of his character, it paints him as an idiot. I don't think he is an idiot, but rather an insincere, lying, scheming politician.
Posted by: VOT at January 10, 2005 03:01 PM (5fERM)
5
they were looking for an excuse to invade Iraq since day one...so what if they exagerated the "facts" a bit...at least Bush has a great head for details and did a fantastic job of planning his war! John Wayne would be proud....next stop, IRAN!
Posted by: kingboo at January 19, 2005 04:26 PM (3+not)
6
Hi Sarah,
I've used your article on my blog. (http://www.manitoulinislandindex.com/blog.html) I have to say that I enjoy yours very much and hope hubby gets home to you real soon so you'll have company watching those John Wayne movies.
POKO
Posted by: POKO at January 19, 2005 09:27 PM (GfrGS)
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